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June 5, 2025 — You can jump to the transcript section at any time.
A little less than two-thirds through last night’s two-hour debate among candidates running for the Democratic nomination for mayor in New York City, Politico’s Sally Gold posed a question that ought to be top of mind for anyone who does want to be the mayor:
The city spends more of its tax dollars on public schools than anything else, but, after shelling out some $40,000 a year per student, only about half of New York City kids can read or do math at grade level — only half. Bottom line here: what do you see as the top reason for that dismal return on this $41 billion a year investment and how would you turn it around as mayor? You’ll all have 30 seconds to answer.
As a preliminary matter, there have been lots of complaints about answers being limited either to 30 seconds (as was the case here) or to at most 60 seconds (in other portions of the debate). It’s true that one can’t in 30 seconds deal with the multiple roots of why so many students go through the New York City public school system and wind up not ready for college, not ready for work, and not ready for citizenship. Nor can one deal with all the ways that the school system has failed them in that time.
But what was striking last night was how many candidates didn’t have the substance to fill even 30 seconds, or revealed in that time an under-appreciation of the problems that are going on.
As I review the responses of the candidates, the associated link will take you directly to that candidate’s answers. There were not many that were proficient, let alone excelling. The bigger picture: I remain convinced that candidates still treat a host of school-related issues as taboo.
Michael Blake started things off. Leaving aside his attack on Andrew Cuomo on an unrelated point, he apparently wants “better pedagogy” and no “anti-Blackness.” Not a robust answer.
Zohran Mamdani was next. Leaving aside his response to Cuomo’s having attacked Mamdani on a non-education issue in response to Blake’s having attacked Cuomo on a non-education issue, he asserted that “all of the challenges” are downstream from children who are hungry and/or homeless. Child homelessness is surely a significant problem, but the suggestion that all of the challenges come back to that doesn’t add up. It was the first of a number of candidates who were either unaware of or uninterested in the fact that many school-aged children have been failed decade after decade by the systems and structures around them. This was true when homelessness was much less of an issue than it has been recently. (Mamdani added a pitch for fully implementing class-size reduction.)
Witney Tilson said he wanted more accountability (presumably for both administrators and teachers) but didn’t suggest what that means other than to (unrealistically) paint charter schools as a group as the shining example. Oddly, he did not mention one of his proposed targeted interventions that does acknowledge that different students have different needs: “hiring 15,000 high-impact tutors to meet with struggling students in high-needs schools three times a week to help them improve their math, reading, reasoning and science skills.” (His complete education platform is here.)
Andrew Cuomo, leaving aside his pursuit of an unrelated attack on Mamdani, seemed almost dissociated, contrasting what Sally Gold had presented as, and most New Yorkers know as, a failing system with an (unsupported) claim to have raised education in New York State to the highest level in the country. Also peculiar for a candidate running as Mr. Experience: claiming insufficient knowledge about the city’s curricula. Last, a call for more paraprofessionals in some schools (high-need schools?), which, I think, no one would describe as the most important contribution to solving our problems.
Moving on to Zellnor Myrie, he spent half his time on his biography, then talked about Covid-related learning loss. Here, again, Covid-related learning loss is real and must be addressed, but it misses the fact that deep problems were present well before Covid emerged. His call for universal after-school (a signature issue) may have resonated more if he had skipped the bio part and explained how after-school programs can improve student outcomes. See his “opportunity agenda,” particuarly page 11.
Jessica Ramos also focused on her biography and on Covid-related learning loss.
Brad Lander identified growth in mental health crises, homelessness, and chronic absenteeism, but didn’t peg his entire response to that. His specific calls: better teacher recruitment, retention, and support, and making every school a community school (per his education platform, schools that provide wraparound services for students and families). That platform also specifies another reference in his remarks: the need to identify the proper metrics of school and student performance and need to be measured.
Adrienne Adams was vague in the extreme: redeploy resources and help children navigate the Department of Education bureaucracy.
Last, Scott Stringer leaned too much on the Covid-related aspect of the problem, but twice focused on the critical need for extra tutoring for higher-need students.
What else needs to be addressed?
It really goes back to Sally Gold’s question. There was widespread unwillingness to admit that solutions are not simply a matter of increasing efficiency here, getting a little more accountability there, adding some programs everywhere, or doing anything that presumes systems that are basically intact. The systems are fundamentally broken. We have a five-alarm fire (most acutely for students at the bottom of the performance spectrum, but for students not apparently flailing, too). If you had that appreciation, you would have heard different answers.
And you might have heard about some of the following. Not a comprehensive list, but a good start.
These are all in the taboo or near-taboo category: The role of parents who are largely uninvolved in their children’s education. Sub-standard teachers. The existence of neighborhoods of concentrated poverty. The extent to which interventions focusing on students “seeing themselves” in the curriculum are a distraction. [Trigger-warning: The responsibility (or lack of responsibility) of students themselves.]
Similarly under-discussed (and not really solvable by the expedient of smaller class sizes): children in the same elementary school classroom with wildly different reading or math levels.
Discussable, except for what you do to pay for it: providing the intensive and individual attention that some children need.
The remarkably invisible Chancellor.
The education portion of the discussion began a few seconds before the 1:16:00 mark of the YouTube video of the event. The transcript represents a (quick) best effort to correct the auto-generated transcript accompanying the video.
Sally Gold: Let’s move on to another very important topic: public schools. The city spends more of its tax dollars on public schools than anything else, but, after shelling out some $40,000 a year per student, only about half of New York City kids can read or do math at grade level — only half. Bottom line here: what do you see as the top reason for that dismal return on this $41 billion a year investment and how would you turn it around as mayor? You’ll all have 30 seconds to answer: Mr. Blake we’ll begin with you.
Michael Blake: We have to address literacy and have a better pedagogy on the front end so that our teachers and our educators and families are able to make sure that we address this critical issue. It’s the reason why I led the My Brothers Keeper program, but it also means that we have to be clear to be against any anti-Blackness that is happening in our schools. And something that many people may not realize. In 2008, Andrew Cuomo said that no candidate should “shuck or jive” in an election. Clearly Barack Obama was there. So, when we talk about education it’s not just about making sure that we’re understanding how more kids can read but making sure we address the anti-Blackness happening in schools.
Sally Gold: We’re at time, Mr. Blake, and before we move to Mr. Mamdani: Mr. Cuomo, would you like to respond to that?
Andrew Cuomo: I-I, it’s ridiculous. So, no.
Sally Gold: What about it is ridiculous?
Michael Blake: Is it inaccurate that you said in 2008…
Andrew Cuomo: I never insulted President Obama.
[Crosstalk.]
Andrew Cuomo: It is Mr. Mamdani who said he is a liar.
Sally Gold: Is the quote incorrect?
Andrew Cuomo: I never insulted him.
Sally Gold: OK, not hearing an answer…
Michael Blake: This is very clear. In 2008…
Andrew Cuomo: I never…
[Crosstalk.]
Sally Gold: We do have to move on because many people do want to hear about public education. so we’re going to move on to Mr. Mamdani to discuss
Zohran Mamdani: I was invoked…
Sally Gold: Ok, you can have 45 seconds to answer to respond to him and please address the question about public schools.
Zohran Mamdani: Yes, absolutely. I’ll do so. I’ll do so shortly after. We have Mr. Cuomo who said these words of shuck and jive when Barack Obama was wanting to be the president of our country. I was proud in 2008 that the first doors I ever knocked on was for Barack Obama, while we had a candidate here…
Andrew Cuomo: Why do you call him an evil and a liar?
Zohran Mamdani: We have a candidate here who is a candidate here who is so allergic to any accountability or acknowledgement of a mistake that he can’t even admit that he said these kinds of words. Now as it pertains to public education: all of the challenges that we are facing in our city when it comes to our schools they are also downstream from the fact that 500,000 of our children are going to sleep hungry every single night. A 100,000 of them for the ninth consecutive year are now homeless. We need to ensure we have a city where our children can not only have food to eat a place to call their home and we also have the full implementation class-size reduction.
Sally Gold: Mr. Tilson, we’re going to move to you and I just want to remind you we do want to know a solution to the problem in the public school system; that is the heart of this question.
Whitney Tilson: Sure. The failure of our public schools is Exhibit A of how city government spends way too much and delivers far too little. Our kids are reading below Mississippi’s despite spending 40,000 bucks a kid. They’re the poorest state in the nation, spending 12. It’s really — if you’re a businessperson, I know and I am, for 40 years — it’s bad management. There are few if any rewards for success and few if any consequences for failure. I served on the board of Kipp charter schools for more than 20 years and 15 percent of our public schools — the charter schools — are held accountable. Not surprisingly, they are the best — charter schools — public schools overall in the city delivering for kids.
Sally Gold: We have to move on. Mr. Cuomo. And I just want to remind you, again, we’re really, we’ve established that there’s a problem. We’re looking for solutions. Mr. Cuomo?
Andrew Cuomo: Gotcha. Interesting Mamdani never denied saying Obama was “evil and a liar.”
Sally Gold: I believe neither of you denied the quotes.
[Crosstalk between and among multiple candidates and moderators.]
Sally Gold: Neither of you denied the quotes that were raised but we are here to talk at this moment about public solutions to public education.
[Additional crosstalk.]
Andrew Cuomo: I’m proud that I raised education to the highest level of any state in the United States. I understand the point about we need to reform the education system; I would start with the DOE. They spend hundreds of million dollars on consultants. We don’t know what we get. I want a real analysis of the curriculum — “New York City Solves” and “New York City Reads.” We need more paraprofessionals in those schools. One out of eight children are homeless. It’s too much for a teacher to do.
Sally Gold: Understood.
Andrew Cuomo: Pay the paraprofessionals for assistance.
Sally Gold: We’re at time. Thank you. Mr. Myrie.
Zellnor Myrie: I wouldn’t be standing on this stage if not for our city’s public schools. I went to PS 161 — the crown school — and made my way to Cornell Law School, with Brooklyn Tech and Fordham in between, only because there were teachers that got up every single day and put their best foot forward so that I can be on a path to success. But we also have to think about what is happening after school. We had learning loss over Covid-19, and I want to provide universal after-school to help make up for that learning loss. i wouldn’t be here today if I didn’t have an after-school program that taught me karate (even though I was terrible and I was the only boy [unintelligible] have the moves to prove it. I want to give that to every single kid.
Sally Gold: We’re at time now. We’re going to move to Mrs. Ramos, Ms. Ramos.
Jessica Ramos: Well now I have to shout out PS 70, IS 10 and the Academy of American Studies in Astoria. I wouldn’t be here without them and my children wouldn’t be where they are in middle school in Queens if it wasn’t for PS69 in Jackson Heights. Look — it’s true that our children suffered some lapses in developmental and social skills throughout the pandemic. I’ve seen it. So, I want to make sure that we are delivering on teacher centers so that our teachers have more supports giving NYC more time to really [unintelligible] in and really providing our District 75 schools with all of the funding they deserve.
Sally Gold: OK, thank you, Ms. Ramos. Mr. Lander. Again, we are looking for solution-oriented answers here.
Brad Lander: Both our kids also pre-k to 12 in New York City public schools. Shout out PS 107. 30 seconds is hard. I’ve got a detailed plan. I’m the only candidate in the race with a detailed plan on my website for education. How I’ll measure what matters. What metrics I’m looking at. How I’ll recruit, retain, and support teachers including a teacher center in every school and how I’ll deal with the growth we’ve seen in mental health crises, in homelessness, and in chronic absenteeism by making every school a community school so it can support all our students.
Sally Gold: Thank you. Miss Adams.
Adrienne Adams: You know, prior to becoming an elected official, I was the education chair for my local community board. Education has always been a priority for me; it always will be. We raised four children in the public school system. So, again: I am that everyday New Yorker that knows what this feels like. So, we know that the DOE has the highest budget of all city agencies. What I would do would be to redeploy resources. i have seen as council speaker how difficult it is to maneuver through the DOE agency and the barriers of bureaucracy, but as mayor I will have full view in order to help all of our children get through the bureaucracy and get our children taught the right way.
Sally Gold: Mr. Stringer.
Scott Stringer: My sons Max and Miles are going through public middle school as we speak and the challenge for them as Covid kids is very real. And there’s a lot of kids out there that need help and they need it now. They need mental health services. They need extra tutoring and we’re not providing that with this $40 billion budget. I know that because I audited the Department of Education more than any controller in history. I found missing computers, missing iPads, at the height of Covid. But here’s what we have to do. Child-care. Baseline pre-k. 3K. We need an after-school program that focuses on tutoring and giving kids that don’t have parental resources, financially, [unintelligible] the help they need. It doesn’t matter how you start the race it matters how you finish the race.
Sally Gold: Thank you, Mr. Stringer. We’re at time.